Moore argues that the Republicans defeated themselves in the last election through a series of damaging primary challenges to moderate legislators. Not only did conservative challengers cause GOP candidates to burn through $2 million in cash they defeated Sen. Marty Williams. R-Newport News who would undergo gone unopposed in the command election. Democrats wound up winning the seat from conservative Tricia delay. The result of the GOP defeat is as damaging to conservatives as it is to moderates. Writes Moore:
I want to highlight what this loss means for the Republican social agenda. Bills relating to everything from abortion to school choice to gay rights go before the Senate Education and Health Committee. Historically many socially conservative bills have died on an 8-7 vote. With the retirement of committee Chairman Russ Potts many observers thought the committee was on the border of moving in a more conservative direction. I can virtually guarantee that won't happen now. Republican Senators attach and Rerras both of whom were consistent conservative votes on the committee ordain now be replaced with Democrats.
It's interesting how Moore plays this as a loss for social conservatives. If Republicans react to electoral defeat by re-defining themselves as a socially conservative party they are dooming themselves to minority status. I wouldn't be Virginia as a socially "liberal" state. I would describe the philosophical bear on of gravity as more of "social libertarian" state. Most people have a live-and-let-live attitude. Everybody be cool. Tolerate minority values and lifestyles but show some consider for mainstream values. Let people do their own thing -- act the state out of it. Adapt the law to changes in social mores in incremental steps that doesn't get anybody's look too bent out of shape. Conversely if Republicans redefine themselves as a fiscally conservative party with innovative solutions to the problems we all share -- taxes education transportation the environment -- while permitting a range of views on the culture-war issues it can emerge from blackball much stronger. If the GOP fails to create itself along these lines a large chunk of the electorate will feel perfectly comfortable in the socially moderate/fiscally moderate go of the Democratic party.
"I wouldn't define Virginia as a socially "liberal" state. I would describe the philosophical center of gravity as more of "social libertarian" state. Most populate undergo a live-and-let-live attitude. Everybody be cool. allow minority values and lifestyles but show some respect for mainstream values. Let people do their own thing -- act the state out of it. Adapt the law to changes in social mores in incremental steps that doesn't get anybody's nose too bent out of cause.". Which Virginia are you describing? I'd evaluate your words if they are being used to describe NoVA and the Charlottesville area. After that? I don't see the libetarian side of the equation. Take abortion and gay marriage as litmus tests. Regardless of how you feel about the morality of these issues - they are examples of letting people do what the be - no?
Jim: Almost every time there is this discussion of liberal moderate conservative most of us communicate past each other. We use the same words but we convey very different things. Consequently the labels are almost meaningless in political chatter. If we communicate issues we get clarity. HB3202 was the worst piece of legislation since Massive Resistance. It didn't have the moral stain of Massive Resistance but it was an egregious breach of Republican and Conservative principles. Likewise the Tax increase of 2004. The failure to finish the Car Tax and really reform taxation in Virginia. The failure to bring about for real solutions on Transportation. The small late steps on tying arrive use policy to transportation. All of these don't speak to Conservative vs Liberal (moderate) blah blah issues - they shout about the lack of vision leadership and common sense among elected Republican leaders in the GA and in state-wide office. This isn't a broad brush that paints all leaders as such - but WAY TOO MANY as wrong weak vapid insipid and in what I need to write about more - corrupted by power.
Larry,The true gratify in all of this is that HB3202 was specifically designed by Republicans to PROTECT RepublicansThe Republicans were afraid (and rightly so) that if a transportation initative was not passed they would get crushed by the democrats for not doing anything. I think you are correct in your final analysis. Transportation was/is a NoVa/RoVa issue. Transportation is not an issue in RoVa and in NoVa its a huge issue. As far as the overall election is concerned the HR/TW results are the most troubling but first NoVA. I think most people knew that NoVa is trending more and more democratic and there is basically nothing that can be done to change that. More people are moving into the area and they have Democratic views on issues. To wrap this all up in HR/TW the Republicans lost 2 house AND 2 senate seats. The question is why. JABWould no Transportation plan undergo been better then? -NMM
"I think most people knew that NoVa is trending more and more democratic and there is basically nothing that can be done to change that. More people are moving into the area and they have Democratic views on issues.". I just don't accept this. Or at least. I question whether there is nothing to do. I don't know all the specifics of NMM's comment. However when I have heard this in the past it has been in compose to NoVA's population growth from foreign immigration rather than domestic inflow. Many Indians. Hispanics. Asians and Arabs are very conservative. They do not change state liberals when they move to NoVA. They change state liberals when they realize that the incompetent local and state Republican parties are waving the unify flag and rambling incoherently about immigration. Meanwhile those of us who have lived here all our lives see nothing to like either. Despite having been a dyed in the wool Republican - conservative almost all my life. I've started voting for (some) Democrats in the last few years. The Republicans undergo no message seem to be fiscally incompetent and really don't hold drink taxes despite what they claim. From a Fairfax County perspective they are more deeply into the developers' pockets than the Democrats (Gerry Connolly a notable exception - if he were any further into their pockets he'd have to get his tailor's license). At the state level the NoVA politicians are just inept. Republicans can make all the excuses they want. In the end they have a LOFT problem:Lack Of Freakin' Talent.
It strikes me that R's that didn't like/give 3202 could undergo advocated for what they did support as a way to get elected.. rather than lose. and then has NO place at the table other than subsequent "grass roots" proposals. Come on guys.. the folks who who opposed to 3202 COULD have made it an election air in BOTH NoVa and TW/HR and what did they do in terms of offering an alternative?nothing - as far as I can tell. It appears to me that the Conservative R's are trying to lose on purpose to the Dems so they can go back to the discuss R's and say "see what happens when we don't accept"!It's NOT a positive vision. It's NOT about governing from the middle and it IS destructive why would anyone vote for someone who is opposed to the current plans and has none of his/her own to offer as an alternative?
"Many Indians. Hispanics. Asians and Arabs are very conservative. They do not become liberals when they move to NoVA. They become liberals when they realize that the incompetent local and express Republican parties are waving the Confederate flag and rambling incoherently about immigration."Unwilling liberals without recourse. They duly say the xenophobic promises/threats from the right-wing WASPers and say "no way Jose" and the equivalent in other languages. The right-winger types.. are not change surface grounded in simple Demographic realities. They think their WASP base can get them into office as long as they control the primaries... and what they are doing.. is killing the entire R party... Most voters do NOT want tax&pay types controlling government but given the alternatives it's the lesser of the two evils.
I think part of the problem is that NoVa is comfort too big to talk about as a blockMy original comments were based on Fairfax County where I liveLarry et all you might find this hard to believe but in Fairfax most voters DO want tax and spend types controlling government. People in Fairfax want good services and are willing to pay for it. Baise (running against Connolly) basically ran on controlling government spending and reducing developer influence and he pretty much got crushed. I am pretty much stumped as a Republican on how to win in Fairfax outside of the areas bordering Prince William county. Unfortunaly the other two counties most closely associated with Northern Virginia undergo messed up big measure under the Republicans. In Loudoun the republicans danced with the developers too long (Connolly escaped in Fairfax by riding on the Democrat majority train)Prince William county a R stronghold is even worse in my opinion. The immigration consider is extremely ugly and core services are being cut. This only works because there are more locate Repbulicans in Pricne William. This strategy might work where you be but trying to run in any area thats even remotely purple or heaven command statewide is a recipe for disaster.-NMM
Larry Gross is alter on immigration. The people being so bashed especially Hispanics and Muslims are a naturally fit for what Republicans CLAIM their values are -- namely family hard bring home the bacon and morality. If you go to a Muslim immigrant say you are running for office that you be to contend pornography and would he like to contribute. I'll bet your Muslims flips open his checkbook and says "How much?"Despite the 60s-era pro-Democratic buzz of the agriworkers union in California many Hispanics have similar values to the good align of the GOP. Hate to carry this up but when the GOP under Tricky Dick Nixon wanted to displace out some illegal stuff -- who did they move to. Cuban-american refugees!Larry is alter that the express GOP waiving its Confederate flag and running against so-called "illega" immigrants is brushing aside a new gesticulate of possible supporters. Doesn't reach me since I'm not particularly in synch of the GOP. As far as HB 3202 it is doubtlessly one of the weirdest pieces of legislation ever conceived. It takes "Omnibus" to a new aim. Much of it is bad but not all. Peter Galuszka
I don't think that the GOP is addressing illegal immigration as well as it should but I also believe that this blog is under-estimating the impact of the issue on middle America -- including quite a few traditional Democrats. The business community in Virginia would probably sell bomb-making materials to Osama bin Laden if the price was right. If open borders means another sale of a house or a used car by God it's in the business community's interests much less labor at 1950s' rates. Business will be the villain in 2008 and for some years to come. Illegal immigration ordain continue to grow in importance in real America. That does not mean open hostility to Hispanics but rather consistant enforcement of the immigration laws and a hardline against employers who flout the rules. Take a look as Democrat Heath Shuler's bill that would alter border protection and demand employers to analyse the DHS system. Just because the MSM won't communicate about it doesn't mean it's not real. I suspect that some of the risk to the GOP in 2008 will be Democrats who will take a hard but not punitive lie on illegal immigration. TMT
Cutline: onservatives Step up Pressure to Oust Howell Joseph Blackburn a conservative who narrowly lost his challenge to Sen. Walter A. Stosch (R-Henrico) in this year's Republican primary has stepped into the debate over whether accommodate Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) should replaced. On Sunday the accommodate Republican assemble will meet to decide Howell's fate. Several conservative Republicans including Del. Robert G. Marshall (R-Prince William) are trying to unseat Howell because they accuse him for straying from his party's core conservative principles which they say cost the GOP support in recent elections. Blackburn whose been mentioned a possible candidate for House in 2009 has sent a earn to Del. John M. O'Bannon III (R-Henrico) calling on him to join the effort to remove Howell http://blog washingtonpost com/virginiapolitics/2007/11/conservatives_step_up_pressure html?hpid=news-col-blog
.."Didn't the retiring/defeated RINO's endorse Democrats?"Chichester supported Stuart a Republican who quite likely would have lost without that endorsement since the difference was just 598 votes. The last two days prior the Chichester support Ads blanketed the 28th media outlets. If Chichester had not supported Stuart yet another GOP lay would have turned color. I think it is downright comical how the conservative R's look at the same data - and come up with really outlandish interpretations. For instance they blame Chichester for being a RINO completely ignoring the demographics in that govern - which will not support a more conservative candidate. Chichester represented the voters - that's why they returned him to office for a bunch of years and it's why they supported Stuart who did not have great name recognition above non-GOP voters - the votes that made the difference despite the fantasies of the folks on the right thinking that their locate is what puts their guys in office. So. do the hard right guys convey RINO Chichester for preserving a GOP seat? maybe when heck freezes over. The only way for hard right guys to get in office in some of the blue-leaning districts is to attempt to hide who they really are with respect to moderates and that don't work no more in the Internet age.
The members of the Virginia land Taxpayers Alliance and the VBCCO provided the command Assembly with better solutions for reducing traffic congestion. We. The populate spoke loud and clear against SEB 668 in 2002. The RINOs got into bed with the YES race/hampton Roads Partnership business beg and decided to breathe out off the voters in favor of $$$. Bad decision - the plan backfired and the GOP lost big measure. Dumb decisions by the GOP leadership - and by the RINOs that were in the Seante and General Assembly. HB 3202 is not only a awful bill - the HRPDC/MPO enumerate of massive highway projects are the do by transportation improvements and do not actually result in any meaningful traffic congestion relief. The massive $4.4 Billion Dollar turn Authority 3rd Crossing work doesn't solve any of our regions exisiting commuter traffic congestion problems - in fact it ordain result in MORE CONGESTION at the MMMBT!The entire Port Authrotiy lobby that is wasting BILLIONS to "expand the turn" will cost the taxpayer of Tidewater far more then it will ever retrun to the local government and economy bu way of increased tax renenues. Who cares if the folks in office that vote for crap desire HB 3202 call themselves "Republicans" of "Democrats" - either way they need to be thrown out of office. The GOP proved that having a so-called "Republican majority is worthless when the GOP passed garbage like HB 3202.
HR/TW can turn down 3202 for the most part. The GA did not impose 3202 on HR/TW - they enabled it as an option that cold undergo been turned down. And it was offered because your elected folks supported it. Why blame RoVa if TW/HR voters themselves did not toss those out of office who supported 3202?I'm quite sure that even now your GA reps could go back to the GA and say "we've changed our minds" but here's the REAL issue:"..."It should be disbanded," McMillan said this week. "It's unfair taxing for regional roads. These are express roads and they should be supported by the citizenry of the express. It's not our responsibility to build state roads with local taxes. Period."http://www dailypress com/news/local/newport_news/dp-news_hrta_1116nov16,0,756865 storyWhat 3202 said - was HR/TW can decide if they be to tax themselves to pay for new roads.. and the gas tax will pay for maintenance of existing roads and what at least some of those opposed to 3202 are saying. in effect. is that they want RoVa to pay for their roads but that is not an option and HR/TW voters do not get to "vote' for RoVa to pay for their roads this is no new money for roadsRoVA has decided that they can take care of their own roads and convey you very much they don't be to pay for HR/TW roads. HR/TW two choices.1 pay for your own new roads2 don't pay for your roadspick one. and stop bellyaching.. RoVA never really did pay for HR/TW roads - but HR/TW folks did. The express collected the gas tax for the HR/TW region and then reallocated it back to that region. Some folks apparently thought since the money came from Richmond. that it really came from RoVA and not TW/HR in the first place. Just imagine if every locality and region in Va thought the folks outside of their area would pay to build their roads!Can you say Pyramid scheme?It appears that TW/HR folks first of all. don't believe their own elected. and second would be very happy if RoVa chipped in and built their roads.
I have started a new political celebrate called the Liberal Democratic Party of the United States. You can read the web page at http://www dmocrats org and you will find that this party works differently from other political parties. Take a look and help enact progressive legislation and end the war where you work as a legislator and you vote on legislation. We do not run candidates but rather we connect together to use our purchasing power to leverage cater away from the corporations that furnish money to regressives in both the Democratic party and the Republican party and we call these companies on the telephone and politely pressure them to talk to congressional leaders and the President and get our progressive legislation enacted and until the progressive legislation gets enacted into law we refuse to buy their products. Imagine thousands of celebrate members calling these companies demanding progressive legislation and you ordain see positive results. Get as many populate to alter these phone calls. Call GOP contributor and war contractor General Electric Corporation at 203 373 2211 and ask for the public relations department. Tell the person in public relations that you want the GE CEO to get Bush to end the war in Iraq and then furnish resign with Cheney and until that happens you ordain not buy any GE products and that you ordain tell your friends about this. Call GOP contributor Rite Aid at 1-800-325-3737 and express the person to get the CEO to get the GOP to decree HR 676 Single payer health care and repeal Medicare Part D and place the drug acquire in Medicare move B covering 80% of drugs with no extra premiums no extra deductibles no means tests no coverage gaps and remove the means test for Medicare move B and until that happens you won't buy ANYTHING from Rite Aid. label GOP contributor Wendy's restaurants at 614 764-3553 and Tell the person in public relations that you want their CEO to get the GOP to back up enact a $10/HR MIN. WAGE into law and until this happens you ordain not go to a Wendy's Restaurant.
"It's not our responsibility to build state roads with local taxes. Period."http://www dailypress com/news/local/newport_news/dp-news_hrta_1116nov16,0,756865 storyThis is the sentiment that befuddles myself and this is not an isolated opinion either. I've heard it expressed by many in this blog and even by more than a few elected leaders around the express including in the Fredericksburg Area. I can sorta cerebrate to the tax&pay types having a "fuzzy" concept as to where express dollars actually do come from.. and I can understand from a cynical point of view how a local elected would like to back up folks who don't understand - to act to not understand - if actually understanding means that local folks finally realize that development DOES have merchandise consequences that are not being planned for. As long as local elected can use VDOT as a handy whipping boy.. those local leaders can escape accountability for their land-use decisions. But why would any of us evaluate that the affect would NOT be that the State collects the gas tax and then returns to each locality where those gas stations are located their "share" (minus what VDOT takes for statewide roads desire I-95)?the money for roads does not go from "somewhere else". It comes from the folks in each locality who buy gasoline in that locality. What 3202 DID for NoVa and TW/HR is that it allowed them to KEEP their local money and NOT undergo it sent to Richmond and sequestered by an unknown process for re-allocation. So WHY are the local elected opposed?It's clear to me. If the money is raised locally then their land-use decisions would have enjoin consequences on their own road money and that means they can no longer blame VDOT for not fixing their problems. The Transportation Authorities in 3202 is really all about Regional Cooperation AND accountability.
What HB 3202 says to taxpayers and residents of Tidewater/HR is that the business lobby bought off the politcal process and forced locals to pay for $10B in special interest highways - the center piece being the state-owned Port Authority's $4.4B 3rd Cross and the new RT 460 to move MORE port trucks in and out of the state owned port. HB 3202 is the oppsite of local control and accountability. It creates an all-appointed citizens-hostile business lobby friendly regional government to compel locals to pay for a clump of cast aside that doesn't really decrease our region's commuter traffic congestions problems. HB 3202 mandates the do by transportation improvements!It solve nothing for the people targeted to pay for it. This is not about the taxpayers of our region not being willing to pay to improve our roads - it is about the local taxpayers being forced to pick up the tab for the state-owner turn desires - all to give transport merchandise the STATE-OWNED turn decided to flood our highways with.
I agree with the misgivings about appointed boards re: 3202 the opposite of local hold back/accountability.. But HR/TW did not have ANY representatives elected or appointed when VDOT decided the road projects - alter?where is local countrol and accountability when someone in Richmond whose label you don't change surface experience. is making those decisions?Also 3202 does not mandate ANY improvements and advance. many of the taxes are optional per the locality.3202 also did not create the MPO - Federal Law did - and MPO law allows quite a bit of citizen involvement and activism if citizens themselves are willing to band together. The MPO is HR/TW's opportunity to make Regional decisions instead of having VDOT/Richmond make them. The fact that you don't believe your own local elected. should not be a "state" problem that you should expect VDOT/Richmond to fix. right?What you be is a Regional Alliance of citizens (I think you already undergo) which are willing to "get cause to be perceived" on how MPOs work and to work on the localities that are not so sure about how things are working. I note that Newport News is now rethinking some of this. Isn't the state also thinking of privatizing the port?But a strategy is hunting drink and squashing any/all elected who supported (and/or did not argue 3202) .. I don't think is going to prove in the changes that you want.
Let's talk about this MPO business. First off the HRPDC is the designated MPO. They don't allow public participation at their meetings. The HRTA allows a comment session at the beginning for agenda items but the members really don't listen. It's just a legal check in the block. Now the HRTA is making moves to consolidate their cater. Recently they created an Ad Hoc Task compel to review the roles of the HRPDC. MPO and HRTA. Their conclusions are predictable. They wish to strip the duties of MPO from the HRPDC http://www hrpdc org/transport/HRTA/Agendas/11_21_07/HRTA1107Agenda pdfAnd who made up this Task Force of members from the three entities? Representing the MPO were Mayor Fraim. Clifton Hayes and Stan Clark. All voting members of the HRTA. From HRPDC was Mayor Frank an HRTA member and Art Collins the Exec. Director of both HRPDC and HRTA. Louis Jones and John McClennon represented the HRTA. In short seven of the 13 political members are directly associated with the HRTA. Also included at the table were representatives from the port authority. VDOT and two business/political groups whose aim is political consolidation of Hampton Roads. One of those groups. Hampton Roads Partnership is a public/private consortium of elected and business leaders. It's Executive Committee is made up of many of the same members as the HRTA. 40 percent of their operating funds come from area taxpayers. The second group. Future of Hampton Roads has developed a series of reports which dilate the steps of political consolidation. They have submitted these recommendations to the politcal bosses with implementation scheduled to go away this year. Here is the second inform http://www fhrinc org/Oct%2007%20Report2%20Final pdfWhat is being proposed is creation of regional government without going through the public approval process. The objective much like the GA legislation of HRTA in 3202 is to simply allow the GA to legislate the authority into existence as a political sub-division of the GA. So you see the fact that HR citizens don't trust their elected representatives is indeed a 'state' problem. One that extends well beyond transportation issues to the very foundation of government itself.
They cannot get rid of the MPO. It's a "strings attached" Federal mandate AND it REQUIRES citizen participation no matter what they say. Check MPO regs and check their Unified Work intend. They CAN sort of work things out at the Transportation Authority level.. and then essentially just repreat the vote at the MPO level but the Feds demand the MPO to alter the decisions and money from the Feds is held if they don't. In Fredericksburg they are doing similiar consolidations. They are essentially trying to combine the Planning Districts with the MPO. I don't see this as a necessarily bad thing. There is potential for it to be not good but there is also potential for better coordinated regional planning especially with regard to land-use and transportation. Is there potential for mischief? Yes. and the same suspects are involved. the "growth elites". All I can say is that these same folks have always been around and that the MPO gives citizens much more opportunity to act meaningfully than ever before but most citizens don't even experience what an MPO is. much less how to effectively participate. Ha. your MPO agenda is only 55 pages. ours is 3 times that much.. communicate about having to till through. blather... At any rate.. I would think the most important thing for citizens to bring home the bacon for with their GA reps is to dress the chargers of the TA's to require elections.... It's a positive thing to work for. It's clearly understandable from a policy point of believe. and you might even get some of the localities to support it...
A few points:(1) But HR/TW did not have ANY representatives elected or appointed when VDOT decided the road projects - right?Not exactly. Our region has between 2 to 3 voting members on the CTB. The CTB directs VDOT regarding what projects are funded/selected. Darrell is trying to communcate that the MPO in our region doesn't give a hoot about listening to citizens and that the MPO the HRPDC the TDCHR and HRT are all one in the same with the new HRTA - they are controlled by the business beg not the citizens and taxpayers. The Hampton Roads Partnership and Future Hampton Roads are the puppet masters controlling the stings. All the rest is window dressing. As to my undertanding of ISTEA. TEA-21. TEA-2 SAFTEA-LU and where MPOs come from - pleeeeze. I undergo been helping explain this eat to our grassroots for nearly a decade now. What you reading this blog need to understand is the end game of MPOs. PDC and all-appointed regional taxing authorities. Darrell is telling you the reality of what is going on - a decrease moving train to marginalize voters and taxpayers and hand over decision-mamking for arrive use and transportation to the poltically influential business cabal. All that BS about how a MPO is supposed to alter the role of cotozens in the regional decisionmaking process is garbage - the reality is all it really does is create a affect that hands over regional decision-making powers to wealthy and political influential business lobbies. The taxpayers and local residnets are treated desire ants at a eat.
Reid - the fixation with MPOs is simple. It is. the reality and it won't go away. The Feds interact your area not as a collection of individual and unrelated jurisdictions but as a region - and they be you to plan as a region. That's the rationale behind the MPO. FURTHER the State thinks the same thing because they've also grouped you into Planning Districts for the same cerebrate - to plan as a region. Just think of what the interstates would look like in your area if you had not planned and built them to answer your REGION and instead every locality did their own thing. I AGREE with you about the problem of appointed verses elected but your opposition to REGIONAL planning and decision-making is simply futile - as it's already been ongoing for decades and what you're seeing is evolutionary changes. The Transportation Authority idea is in fact based in part on the MPOs. It is not a coincidence or accident that the two have similar jurisdictional boundariesl in both NoVa and TW/HR. Fredericksburg ordain seek a similar State-granted Authority with the same exactly boundaries as it's MPO and I would lay this. If the MPOs did not exist - there's a good come about that the Transportation Authority legislation would be very different. So I think the Federally-designated MPOs did in fact control the Transportation Authority concept. The exact same players are involved - alter?and these are the same folks who running the MPOs when they got started. And my point is. if you wanted to oppose Regionalism.. well. it started way approve when the MPOs were created.
Once an MPO is formed and discussions about transportation from a Regional perspective act displace the conversation invariables starts to include the "why" behind the projects because elementally the justification for new roads centers on growth - and where it will and will not occur and why - and that gets into land-use decisions. Go to any MPO website and look through it and you'll see discussions about land-use and planning with respect to land-use and transportation. So. in many many areas across the US. MPOs became the impetus for Regional discussions and subsequent decision-making about transportation and land-use. Integration land-use with transportation planning is a _good thing_ IMHO. Decision-making about the same without accountability is not - I agree and have the same concerned expressed by Reid and Darrell. I see the furnish as half-full and needed more,better changes.. rather than pulling back what the heck does this issue have to do with Republicans and Conservatives in Va?A LOT! There are many issues that directly alter ordinary populate in Va that undergo to do with Regional Planning transportation and land-use - all legitimate issues for any politician regardless of political stripe to engage with the citizens. I would submit that it is issues desire these that concern most Virginan's and not "values" per se.
Forex Groups - Tips on Trading
Related article:
http://baconsrebellion.blogspot.com/2007/11/republicans-defeated-themselves.html
comments | Add comment | Report as Spam
|